This dialogue was delayed a full year !
Before the start of celebrations of October of last year, asked to meet with Gen. Abdel Fattah Sisi , the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces , Minister of Defense and Military Production , to hold a dialogue with the «Egyptian today » , he had before him nearly two months in office high regard.
That day welcomed Gen. Sisi , leaving determine the deadline beyond the end of the celebration days , Bmrasmha and activities, then held events in turn is desirable , and ended the celebrations scene hit the Egyptians lump in souls, troubled men Egyptian army , and they are looking at the platform celebrate the October victory for war heroes do not find it , while they see the killers of the late President Anwar Sadat in the forefront of the audience.
It seemed that the dialogue amid this atmosphere speech may exhibit more than likely means , Bibad than thrown purposes , has poured oil on the fire , no one wants it then that ignites and escalate Olsntha .
And then you can not dialogue on the pages of newspapers , but had not been interrupted meetings on various occasions !
A full year has passed since then ..
Held under the bridges of the Nile Valley of heavy water , overflowed on Dftiha and washed with faces and landmarks , and the system had dreamed that the governor remains in power for centuries , but cut short his hands - old did not exceed months.
Since the days of renewed demand , and Major General Abbas told me whole , director of the Office of the Secretary of Defense, and one of the closest aides , that the date of the meeting identified before Saturday afternoon October 5.
In at eleven am , I was in the office of Gen. Sisi , at the headquarters of the General Secretariat of the Ministry of Defense , just the minister had attended a meeting of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces , which took place on the occasion of the celebrations of October, and was attended for the first time President interim Adly Mansour .
Office to the salon , he entered the General Sisi Hi , and courtly as usual , which inquires about health conditions and family .
We sat down and began dialogue.
Something in this guy attracts you and you see and hear him .
Not just cool , poise , and confidence in the desert on his looks, and in tones of his voice , and his hands signals .
Not only his rank, his words clear , sometimes return to ensure they have not displaced the ears of his listeners , not clinching which Agfah the cutter does not unfailing smile , or instinctive discipline , which appears in the whole and its movement .
What attracts most in the character of this man ' commander ' , is a deep belief in frank with the public , and the sanctification of the people who are talking about respected and remembered only coupled as ' great ' .
Was destined for this dialogue to take two hours , a long time defense minister in a country like Egypt , in the midst of the situation that prevailed .
But long dialogue to a full 4 hours until three in the afternoon .
Gen. did not reject Sisi answer any question, but some of the details that Bah , he saw - and perhaps he really - this is not a time to be disclosed on the pages of newspapers.
Impressed by his emphasis on the Revolution June 30, and the subsequent statement of July 3, saved the country from a civil war was brewing within two months , as much as is and organs assistants , and caught my passion - with that - not to direct any abuse verbal former President Mohamed Morsi , and excuse him not to understand the requirements of the state administration , and perhaps beyond this careful sticking out ethics , and religious known him forbids militancy in the litigation , or as the saying « I 'm not who if contending dawn » .
Where to begin dialogue? ..
I chose to be the start very early , I know that the private information of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces during the period of administration affairs of the country , on February 11, 2011 to June 30, 2012, are not allowed to one of the members of the Council that dealt with under the law, however, tried to approaching that period , and asked :
■ When I was director of military intelligence , the Marshal Tantawi estimate the position in April 2010, which predicted a popular uprising , and exit the masses to the streets in the spring of 2011, and specifically in the month of May .. How do you come to this estimate ?
- Gen. Abdel Fattah Sisi : If you will talk about this subject , I 'll talk in general. Armed Forces scientific institution , and must be based army at his disposal , planning and progress of science , and we have estimates and reconnaissance devices within the military monitors saw a lot of what is happening within the military and some are outside , in the framework of its national role .
All estimates were indicate that there is a great event, Egyptians are approaching it, and I want to tell you that not all is known about the transitional phase first said, not now or in the coming years , so it is not appropriate to refuse to talk by some about some things, and warn the risk taken in accordance with the law, and soak us in this wrong, but what concerns us is the assertion that the military relies on estimates on the visions of the strategic dimension , scientific , and there is talk too much should not be said at any time, but I repeat that the period from 25 January to now I took a lot of our time and the problems of the future, and how to overcome these events , and how to put the best solutions.
And our military has a great position to monitor things, and dealing with data , forecasting, and I say to all : Be aware of , and the newly Enough about the past , let us talk about the future , and follow up the implementation of solutions.
I said : We turn then to the reign of former President Anchorage .
I remember I asked your Excellency after the announcement of Mohamed Morsi 's victory in the presidential election and before taking office : Did estimated Marsa to get rid of the influence of the group, and becomes the president of all Egyptians? I remember you said : The issue is not appreciated ? .. But originally wanted ? !
■ So you would expect that he does not want to be dominated country's interest on the interest of the group .. How come to this conviction ?
- Let me talk to you a sincere .. It was not dictated to believe this prediction. I wanted to see a new era takes the country away from what is surrounded by threats , and provides an atmosphere of security , stability and development to achieve the aspirations of the people , but my conviction not to put the former head of the country's interest on the interest of the group , they return to the deep study of the many factors which begins features General to the President 's personality and its relationship to the group and its real objectives .
The problem in this matter without offending any one stemming from the intellectual and ideological construction for this group. Incidentally , this does not detract from them , but it affects their efforts in the management of any state. There is a big difference too between the pattern ideological and Layout Intellectual any group , and between the Layout intellectual and ideological state , and must mesh the two with each other , and when happen collision between them therein lies the problem , and even tune the two with each other ( format belief and format of the state) must climb one another , either to escalate the state to the community, and this is impossible , either to escalate the group to the State, through abandoning the format ideological, religious , and this is I think they could not do, because it conflicts with building the intellectual of the group, and will remain the difference between bimodal leading to development of cross leads to the existence of problems and differences , make people feel this situation and come out to protest .
Just as there are building an intellectual and ideological group , there is also the format and build an intellectual and ideological to the individual, but the construction dogmatic individual may in line with the state, because in that case you may choose to climb to the format of the state of harmony with it, but it is difficult to occur in the case of the group because they have a doctrine of one, and imagine if she wastes in the individual ones , they overload the same idea .
I want to say that the issue of « Did the former president wants it or not? » Were not just saw, but it was behind a good reading of reality and the scene a long time ago , because I knew the reality and Achkalyate , and when I arrived the group of government had to be asked several questions, because the problem was not in: you will be president of all Egyptians , or not? But in : Is it wants to be president of all Egyptians , or not? , And whether he can be the president of all Egyptians , or not? , And this way, do not say , for criticizing one , this problem will face any stream does not realize it, because Islam capita non- Islam group , and non- Muslim state, there are things an individual may accept and live with it, in light of his beliefs, and no one can يجادله where , but in Islam group we are faced with a group met with the ideas , they are free to them, but can not withdraw Ajmalla on something and force people it, and this is the problem existing in Islam group , because Islam group does not extend to Islam the state, Vasalam state more extensive and flexible, because the size of diligence is huge, and diligence in all cases, will not hurt , because if we were in this endeavor we will have undergone .
The question is: Is there one can argue that these Islamists are eager to Islam ? ! There is no doubt about it, but the problem is they can not distinguish between the practices of the individual in them as human beings and individuals in the community, and between the practices within the framework of coordinated state, while Event confusion and lack of harmony between the format of the individual and the community and the State Event What we're seeing now , it has made people see that Islam was a sabotage and destruction , and I want to tell you that the image of Islam is currently the world abused them from calling themselves « Islamic » , through their practices, it seemed that those who are keen on religion abused Islam in an unprecedented way , and Islam has become synonymous with murder , blood, destruction and devastation , and should we have to evaluate things in the utmost impartiality and see how the world sees Islam, especially in our country, and you should see how you see other countries of Islam, and the problem is in the application does not inevitably , but not in the curriculum at all, the application is the one who took out this form , which offended Islam, in all countries the world, through the behaviors and actions have nothing to do with the curriculum.
Regarding your question with respect to the former President, to tell you that all the evidence and clues, etc. Our devices and information , they confirm what has already been mentioned, and I told them before most of the time I am keen on their success, and said that each religious trend .
■ taking up the post of commander in chief and defense minister on August 12, 2012 .. Close to the military establishment were expecting that you will succeed , Field Marshal Tantawi , when he retired .. I know you met with Field Marshal on the issuance of the decision .. What did you say to him and what Ojapk ?
- First, there are constants must govern us in everything , I often say that the armed forces of a national institution characterized by honor and fidelity, and the secret in that scene sometimes appear at odds truth, and therefore when you read this scene may cause in the case of messing up for you, and you wonder : I wonder er of the story ? Did you behind this conspiracy , betrayal or collusion ? .. Is there sincerity and honor , or not ? .. These are constants which Oakdha always , and to assure that the military and the national dishonest, do not conspire not betray , the goal of this that people should understand that these values are humane, very high , and the institution where there are no such values must decline the same well , the issue is not bidding on these values , it has to be these constants do not give them no matter what happens , no matter how tempting .
This is what matters to know people in the period we're talking about .
As a precaution , Field Marshal Tantawi has promised after my performance right to the Office of the Secretary of Defense and handed Marshal , and kissed me and congratulated .
■ What did you say to him ?
- I said to him : ' O repented if you want me to leave ... We will leave immediately .
But he said : « I do not .. You know your destiny I have and the extent of your pride .
I say that we must know that the military is characterized honor and integrity and honesty and lack of conspiracy and coup against the leadership, these ethics exist within us .
We come for the celebrations of October last year .. Surprised everyone a gap in the main platform of the heroes of the October War, and issued the killers of the late President Anwar Sadat , the war hero , the scene at the ceremony .
■ There are those who believe that this occasion was the beginning of the strained relationship between the military and the former president, and a sense of the armed forces that Dr. Mohamed Morsy does not deserve to be a leader top of her .... Was it true?
- I do not support the idea that there was a rejection of the former president in the armed forces and increasing with time, until it reached us we've changed the system by force, because it was not true, was not the reality.
What happened is in the context of the lack of background on the state and its leadership style , especially state the size and conditions of Egypt , if they realize that this will give a negative signal to the community and the army what they did.
I speak with the utmost fairness, and I want to when we talk about the subject of not exaggerating , we do not want to be like that « if contending dawn » , and holds up what is not in it .
He claimed that he did not have an understanding of the state , and the meaning of the celebration of such occasion, and thus came the celebration that their work on the image , which appeared on them .
What has happened is bad organization and poor judgment , which he wants to see the admiring glances and satisfaction in the hearts of the read, gave it applies to them these words.
The reading of the history of the Muslim Brotherhood, reveals a gap disagreement deep between the group and the armed forces linked to many considerations which comes in the forefront of the dispute historic between the group and the revolution of July 1952, and particularly leader Khaled Gamal Abdel Nasser, and the dispute dogmatic , while belonging and loyalty to the armed forces of the state and the nation Bhdodh , loyalty The group 's affiliation with the Brotherhood and succession and ideas of the nation , which are not linked homeland and border.
This reading embodied not aware of the Muslim Brotherhood and their supporters after the National Science and the National Peace and National Day and national events such as the commemoration of the glorious October War and the need for contemplation and reflection and to remind the generations and honor the heroes and their families.
The result is that the commemoration of October ruled heroes and near killers belonging or associated with the group, which is a shock to all of us in the armed forces , but we as a disciplined did not initiate showing resentment and rejection of such conduct is responsible , which does not offend the armed forces, but for the state and the people and the Arab nation , which was a partner integrated with Egypt in this victory.
As for the insistence of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood and websites on the abuse of the leaders of the armed forces , and was dealing with the manner in uncontrolled armed forces, while the request for a meeting of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces and display integrated report on the former president shows resentment of these behaviors that do not fit with the desire of the community to achieve convergence with the institutions of the state as it seeks to clash with everyone : the police , the judiciary and the media , intellectuals and the armed forces and the political opposition.
■ On Dec. 11 .. I called to make a community dialogue on the next day the village Olympic compound V under the auspices of the armed forces out of the political crisis experienced by the country , it was in the wake of the Constitutional Declaration issued by former President marina and sparked outrage , then advertising rate at which did not succeed in calming thoughts of the masses. . But canceled the meeting hours before the convening of the armed forces has apologized for the visitors ... What the circumstances of the call and then cancel?
- All agree that the Constitutional Declaration and the Declaration average revealing the true face of the Brotherhood scheme empowerment, and launched the stage of crisis between the former President and his supporters , and between state institutions and the opposition.
Against the backdrop of the evaluation and reading the future of the armed forces of these risks , and the desire to provide an atmosphere to restore dialogue and trust between the different parties , and not participate and return to the equation of political idea came the call , which resonated from all parties , including the institution of the presidency .
And we were keen on their success in judgment , because in this success of the Egyptian state , and the appreciation that the State in these economic conditions and challenges experienced by bears no continuing instability , and therefore we say that who wants his country to settle down and grow helps in the success of the system that elected people , and I want to say that this has been the utmost sincerity , honesty and understanding, and we told him from the first day : You must have people.
Not returned to the state institutions , can not restructure institutions once. If there was a need for reform must takes extent timetable .
When accelerated the political difference between the institution of the presidency between the state and the political forces. I felt like we as armed forces 'd get engaged in this problem , and that the state will pay for it, and I do not want to get involved armed forces of the state can not lose.
So I contacted Dr. Marina , responded to the office manager Ahmad Aaty , and asked him to introduce the armed forces is an invitation for dialogue on President , Vojpt the « Aaty » idea, and I told him : ' show on the President and call me » .
And actually call me Dr. Marina said : great idea .
I said to him : move to implement it ?
He said: moved
And actually let people, and know that there are people who contacted the former president and Juvoh of the idea, and pushed him to request to cancel the invitation to waste an opportunity for rapprochement between the group and the national forces , a pattern which has prevailed until the revolution of June 30, and these people themselves who indicated after the July 3 constantly sit fourth, they do not have the political and security assessment , and their advice is why we are now .
■ Are these from within or from outside Egypt ?
- ' Egyptians ' .
■ Do you belong to the group ?
- This is not the case, but I want to say that this was their advice : not to convene a meeting of dialogue , which called for the armed forces.
The armed forces as a national institution disciplined not only willing to provide advice and do not want in power, presidential responded to the request to cancel the call .. In order to preserve the status of the presidency and the desire not to increase the complexity of the crisis .
■ I know you said the former president once said: « I fail .. and your project ended , when it happened ? And how?
- That was in February. I met him a lot and we talk too much, although that talk in politics between any president and the armed forces the issue into a reservation , I have you sensed that the moral obligation and nationally to speak clearly, even if the matter to the Turkish office, and in any case will not leave my post ahead of the ear of God, and I remember I told the former president that day : « your project finished , and the size of the rollback towards you in the hearts of the Egyptians could not any previous system to reach him , and you and you come to in 8 months .
■ On April 12 last year, was the last meeting of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces attended by Dr. Marina , and there was boiling caused by rumors hesitate to target the defense minister and that he will be sacked , next to the vital issues of national security, as a Suez Canal and the issue of Halayib .
- On this day it was necessary to convey his appreciation position, we will take the abuse , but what we can not afford to be a nation at risk , at this meeting we said that the nation is at risk , and must take action deep to respond to the demands of the people to inflate the crisis.
I remember that meeting, which was called the former president to attend came against the backdrop of what was raised at this time of rumors and abuses of the military command .. The reports , which dealt with the issues of the Suez Canal project and cons and the position of Halayib after his visit to Sudan and posted on the Freedom and Justice Party of Egypt 's map without this region .
The meeting was in essence frankness and expressed complete transparency factors concern the military establishment are calculated by virtue of discipline and national obligations and the credibility of the Secretariat of dealing with the presidency .
The meeting resulted in time for many of the decisions and the results came in the forefront of emphasis on the relationship between the presidency and the military refused to abuse them and commitment to seeing them in the direction of national projects a private development project to the axis of the Suez Canal that does not harm the development and maintaining the requirements of national security and denied the rumors about Halayib , as well as upgrade the leaders of the main branches , which was deferred for a period since their term of office .
Here I would like to emphasize an important fact: What was our concern what is being said about the Egyptian border especially Halayib area , and associated project development axis of the Suez Canal .. Much more than what was reluctant about the dismissal of the leaders of national security is that receive priority attention.
■ we come to a meeting « Dahshur is famous on May 11 with the men of thought , culture and information .. Many were shocked to your statement in which it said that the descent of the army will restore the country's 30 or 40 years back .. They saw as an abandonment of the army for the people .. At the end of the meeting I said « Mtstjlosh » .. What is the message that you mean routed in this today?
- Here I would like to point out the importance of not Subset talk in a single phrase or separation between the modern and the landscape of internal and external Baattabarath , integrated فالقراءة always for the event contributes to the reading and exploring sound messages to these statements.
The remarks at the meeting also included the emphasis on the main tasks of the armed forces .. And the country's need for dialogue and cooperation to overcome the crisis , and the completion of the political process , and urged the people to resort to the ballot box and presence in front of him for long periods of time to establish democracy , the best of our resort to the armed forces, including back country back or push us to the experiences of countries that do not hope it.
These statements were in the indoor environment , where the crisis escalated until it reached the stage of political blockage , and the growing voices calling for the intervention of the armed forces before the explosion of the situation and the position of Outdoor presents scenarios for potential intervention of the armed forces .
From this perspective and background belief National Armed Forces , the statements which carried messages to all parties of Interior , which urges everyone , especially the system of cooperation and dialogue to overcome the crisis after the previously all ignored previous warnings have been launched from the risk of threat pillars of the state and slipping to a state of chaos , and to respond to attempts abroad to interfere in the internal affairs and question the national positions of the armed forces .
The truth is that I want to give an opportunity for the former president because the modifies his position and saving face, and called him after this meeting and I said : ' Now you have the opportunity for a genuine initiative . I told him ' I paid Taman my words , Padf Taman de Ahan I Jaiv of reel, I Delloukt did you wave to speak and introduce the initiative, no one says she came under the pressure of any need, whether political forces or military institution » .. So I was given an opportunity for the former president to launch an initiative to find a solution to the crisis and its director , does not lead us to the complexity of the situation is more complicated than it is .
At the same time I did not want to carry the public opinion of the armed forces do not tolerate , because I felt that public opinion began carrying army full responsibility , and seen to be responsible for this change, and that it implement this vision « and salvation » , and this is extremely dangerous . . Why ? .. Because I if I left this wave or vision to grow in the hearts of the people that the armed forces will solve all the problems and end this crisis between the people of the valley and the Foundation presidency and sentenced in another valley , this means a coup, and I am not possible working coup because the idea of the coup is not present in the doctrines of the Egyptian army , in favor of the Egyptian state , so I wanted to make it clear to people that I would not do it , and therefore people will say ' We are waiting for the president , but he remained silent and did nothing .
Thirdly .. I did not want to break « sense » people or to shatter their hopes in the army once to ask this requirement does not do , and I said to each person to assume its responsibilities , and confirmed that there is a risk of very severe very idea of the coup, and that the most appropriate and the best is to reach any change through the ballot box , and this after a number of attempts reform , and fasten between my words and attempts you made in the previous two months for this meeting .
■ you mean in the meeting, excluding the idea of a final coup of mind , and to tell people you think of anything else.
- Yes, because it is serious risk that the military coup.
■ But you did not mean to hit them that the army would give the people?
- Of course , what happened to complement each other , a picture, who wants to see them follow what was and what I said , and matches the image will find this picture is clear .
■ will talk in detail in the second part of our interview about revolution June 30 , and the intervention of the armed forces to support the people 's revolution on July 3 , but I would like to ask what was estimated before the intervention ?
- The army moved dictated us the national interest and the imperatives of national security and anticipation for the arrival of the country into a civil war within two months if the situation continues where we were , the armed forces were pursuing the situation in the country, and they estimate that if we got to the stage of fighting Ahly and civil war will not be able army that standing in front of or preclude its implications, and would be beyond his ability to control.